The weekly look back on what has been published on the Registered Local Bus Services site over the last week. As always click through for more details including timetables and maps.
Another large batch of service changes for the 4-5th September with quite a few Citybus changes for Plymouth services alongside a few form Stagecoach. The more interesting ones being the revised 1 Plymouth – Tavistock service leaving the Milehouse Park & Ride to Citybus who are revising their 61. The cancellation of the 27 is also noted along with changes to the 28s which now mention the terminus as being Transit Way, with no mention of Derriford or Mainstone 28A. As no timetables have been published on Traveline yet we will have to wait for Citybus to publish details, hopefully very soon. First South West give up on the Discovery Exeter for the season at least. Stagecoach also have a new dockyard service DY1 starting.
As usual click through for more details. I am slowly adding the new timetables to each page as they come through.
| Licence | Route | Start Point | End Point | Effective | Notes | OPERATOR |
| PH1020951.086 | 1 | Exeter Bus Station | Tiverton Bus Station | 28-Aug-2022 | Sunday running timing corrections and bank holiday daytime journeys corrected. | STAGECOACH DEVON LTD |
| PH1020951.249 | 1 | Plymouth | Tavistock | 04-Sep-2022 | timetable variation | STAGECOACH DEVON LTD |
| PH1020951.063 | 2 | Exeter Bus Station | Newton Abbot | 05-Sep-2022 | To amend the times of the afternoon journey serving Dawlish College. | STAGECOACH DEVON LTD |
| PH0000135.006 | 23 24 | CIty Centre, Greenbank, Beaumont Road | City Centre | 04-Sep-2022 | Revised timetables - Monday to Friday early morning & afternoon pea. Monday to Saturday evenings and Sundays. | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH0000135.146 | 27 27B | Derriford Hospital/ Deer Park | City Centre | 04-Sep-2022 | Cancellation | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH0000135.005 | 28 | Royal Parade, Plymouth | Transit Way, Plymouth | 04-Sep-2022 | Revise terminal points, route and timetable.. (No mention of 28A) | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH0000135.148 | 33 | Royal Parade, Plymouth | Royal Parade, Plymouth | 04-Sep-2022 | Early journeys retimed to improve reliability. Sunday journeys operate 5 mins later throughout. | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH0000135.053 | 34 | City Centre, Plymouth | Estover | 04-Sep-2022 | Withdraw service 34A. Restore route of service 34 via Royal William Yard. Revised timetable. | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH0000135.042 | 35 35A | City Centre | City Centre | 04-Sep-2022 | Reroute services via Weston Park Road and revise timetable. | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH1093399.023 | 35 35A | Falmouth, The Moor | Helston | 05-Sep-2022 | Amended route to ease congestion. Revised timetable. | OFFICE & TRANSPORT SERVICES LTD |
| PH0000135.311 | 36 | Royal Parade | City College Plymouth | 05-Sep-2022 | New Service | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH0000135.008 | 42 42A 42B | Tamerton Foliot | City Centre, Plymouth | 04-Sep-2022 | Retime to ease traffic congestion. | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH0000135.149 | 42C | City Centre | Woolwell | 04-Sep-2022 | Retimed to ease traffic congestion. | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH1093399.022 | 42 | Falmouth, The Moor | Camborne Bus Station | 05-Sep-2022 | Amended route to ease congestion. Revised timetable. | OFFICE & TRANSPORT SERVICES LTD |
| PH0000135.013 | 43 | City Centre, Milehouse, St Budeaux | City Centre | 04-Sep-2022 | Retiming to ease traffic congestion. | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH0000135.126 | 61 | Transit Way | Royal Parade | 04-Sep-2022 | Withdraw service 62, Revise route & timetable of service 61, serving Milehouse Park & ride. | PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD |
| PH1020951.005 | 88 88A 88C | Newton Abbot | South Devon College | 05-Sep-2022 | To extend/divert service to serve Higher Westonfields in Totnes. | STAGECOACH DEVON LTD |
| PH1020951.234 | 101 | The George Park & Ride | Plymouth Royal Parade | 04-Sep-2022 | CANCELLED. Replaced by revised service 1 | STAGECOACH DEVON LTD |
| PH1020951.363 | 200 PR1 PR2 | Coypool & George P&R | Plymouth Royal Parade | 30-Jul-2022 | Saturday & Sunday ( for 30 and 31 July 2022). | STAGECOACH DEVON LTD |
| PH0005305.047 | 398 | Dulverton, Barns Close | Tiverton Bus Station | 20-Jul-2022 | New timetable | DEALTOP LIMITED |
| PH0004983.615 | Discover Exeter | Exeter, St David's Station | Exeter, St David's Station | 04-Sep-2022 | Cancelled due to ongoing impact of covid and the need to prioritise academic routes. | FIRST SOUTH WEST LIMITED |
| PH1020951.364 | DY1 | Chaddlewood , Plympton | Devonport Dockyard | 04-Sep-2022 | Monday to Saturday service. New contract | STAGECOACH DEVON LTD |
Thats it for now but I still think there is more to come for September mainly from First South West
Roll up, Roll up. Adventures begin here… pic.twitter.com/fg0ZmOXSCH
— Marc Huws (@MarcMorganHuws) August 13, 2022
New registrations for 19, 31 and coypool Park and ride on VOSA operated by Stagecoach SW
ReplyDelete27 registered as new- George P&R to Plymouth city via the old 28A route. A few other variations but not much details?
ReplyDeletethe 27 hasn't been re-registered, only the 28.
DeleteIt HAS been re-registered as stated. There are often delays in registrations getting through. I use the daily download but I can see this on the individual search.
Deletewell that's a lovely response.... a simple correction would have been suffice, that tone is not necessary.
Delete27 registration isn't here https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/publication/search/ on the latest searches so questioning that
Deletecitybus provided an update for 4th sep thats where it's come from
DeleteSorry if you choose to read it that way - it wasn't intended like that.
Deletesorry anon 21:59 - you are looking for the N&P pages - it wont appear there for a while. Try this page for the registration https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/600058/
Deleteall updates now on Traveline except the 28 and 61 which is odd, last minute changes?
DeleteStrike ballot at First Kernow after management refused to budge at ACAS drivers say
ReplyDelete‘Management’ has improved the offer twice. Both times the RMT National Executive has refused to let members be balloted on it - despite saying they would for the last offer. RMT has already had to withdraw a strike ballot once because it breaches the agreement between the company and union that all negotiations will be exhausted before they go to strike ballot. The ACAS meeting wasn’t a conclusion, but once again RMT has gone straight for a ballot.
DeleteThe RMT is doing it on purpose to try and bring down the government. On the trains their laughable excuse is that the public are behind them. LOL Most of the public are getting fed up!
DeleteI think most of the public are actually fed up with bosses taking tremendous bonus and costs for services being so high while the boots on the ground staff in almost all sectors are seeing real time pay cuts.
DeleteSolidarity with any worker stroking for better pay and conditions. Even more so for those striking to prevent forced redundancy and loss of employment.
The RMT and ASLEF totally messed up my travel plans recently but i still back them and all other unions at present as something has to be done. The government need to act now and I don't mean by picking fights with unions either but by actually helping people by being constructive
DeleteI don't think any boss is taking massive bonuses etc. Yellow Buses going bankrupt when the owners put all their life savings into the company shows that. As with the railways it's now directly under even more government control than before and even then there was no massive profits being made. In regards to the current economic situation there is very little that can be done because you have the biggest oil conglomerate only producing a tiny percentage of oil compared to 2019 (as far as they are concerned it's creaming the profits before oil is phased out), to change that you need strong administrations in the UK, USA, Australia & the EU. All of which we don't have as they are very weak. Spending taxes to help people will only cause further problems as we've seen from furlough and all the covid support.
DeleteNoticed new Buses magazine has piece on a new coach competitor using green coach out Plymouth to Capital but not read it yet
ReplyDeleteI dont get Buses magazine these days but that sounds like FLIXbus service
ReplyDeletehttp://www.plymothiantransit.com/2022/04/flixbus-plymouth.html
DeleteWell what an absolute mess this is. 27 28 35 41 61... No wonder Citybus is losing passengers!!
ReplyDeleteOn top of that why on earth did they split the 11 in the first place just to return it back to how it was?!
Most of these changes are down to Citybus trying to fill in the gap left by Stagecoach ditching Milehouse Park & Ride. Agreed that the 11 does look a bit odd
DeleteSo let's take bets then...how long until Citybus reverse these changes? January? I reckon 61 will be back via Peverell and Mutley by then and 28 will be charged to not operate to Manadon at least.
DeleteIt's possible Cornwall Council has agreed to fund the reinstatement of the 11 as a through route. Looking back through my notes, the 11 was to be cut back in April to operate Plymouth-Liskeard only but Cornwall Council agreed to support an extension to Bodmin Parkway, to be reviewed. The other changes are part of what CityBus calls its "multi-step recovery plan" to put the undertaking on a firmer footing financially, now that Covid 19 Bus Service Support Grant is coming to an end.
DeleteIt will probably come down to finding a better way to server the P&R site. these changes having been made a pretty short notice.
DeleteThanks Julian. I forgot that the route was originally cut back quite a bit.
DeleteProbably the same muppets that thought axing the 74 between Callington and Liskeard was a great Idea. The only services still being retained are ones around school hours.
DeletePeople will now have to travel by 12 to Saltash and then transfer to a service 11 or travel on a 12 to Launceston and catch a 236. Either way this will reduce customer numbers and not encourage people to use the bus. Whilst Citybus say the 74 to Pensilva connects with the 236/237 they do not.
Citybus need to stop blaming funding and covid and be honest and say they dont have the drivers. If they did have the drivers stuff wouldnt be cancelled so much on a regular basis. The buses have now become so unreliable that I have now started using the train from Liskeard to Plymouth and Liskeard to Plymouth. Far cheaper and more reliable!
city bus are losing passages due to not running advertiesd services due to operational problems,they then took on extra services from oakleys then had to cancel service in plymouth area ie5/5a on friday/saturday no 5 service from 1650 to 2005.also nice to see the 6000 series buses back from boardmaster last weekend eight i think and no service cancellations in plymouth this sunday unlike last sunday missing eight roosters??
ReplyDeleteExcellent to see after many years FirstGroup PLC have restored its dividend payout. Although being part of its ESOP I frankly never expected another payout from the PLC. Finally confidence in group is returning & together with its new management structure it should be strategically placed for the future. We can only hope the company stands firm.against the unions and once again in Worcester & South West will be "Transforming Travel"
ReplyDeleteAfter many comments about the behaviour of various DTS operating companies during a contract held by the erstwhile Stagecoach PLC which was being undertaken at The Commonwealth Games 2022 in Birmingham various stakeholders in the South West have made representations to the Office of Traffic Commissioner in regard to an DTS operating company based in Exeter.
ReplyDeleteDTS?
ReplyDeleteCorrection DWS it was changed to DTS by a spellchecker when it was posted
ReplyDeleteSorry still don't know what DWS stands for...
DeleteDWS presumably, as in DWS Infrastructure, the owners of Stagecoach Group. I assume Richard Jones' post was a convoluted way in saying Stagecoach Devon are being investigated by the Traffic Commissioners for being rubbish?
ReplyDeleteThere is NOTHING convoluted Stagecoach PLC no longer exists as a UK entity it is now DWS Group GmbH & Co. KGaA to give its full company title
ReplyDeleteYes - but it is still trading as Stagecoach for the time being at least so thats what people will call it. The typo didnt help though! Thanks anyway for the clarification. Your main point about SCDevon under investigation is important and will be very interesting to see what the Traffic Commissioner says about that.
DeleteSD were already up before the TC, on 22 June, according to N&P 2861, even before the Commonwealth Games issues. I don't know the reason, or the outcome (assuming the inquiry took place).
ReplyDeleteIt did take place - I will be covering it this week hopefully. There is more to come from the TC though
DeleteOnly related to the Gold crash with reliability issues postponed due to new damming evidence emerging, to be heard separately in October PI now
Deletedidbygraham I would be greatfull if you would point out on the LSE or Companies House where Stagecoach PLC still trades and I will accept your comments otherwise why are you correcting my comments which I understand are factually correct as an ICAEW accountant the company operating services in Devon may be registered at Companies House as Stagecoach South West Limited but for me & for the City & legal purposes it is DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA. If you believe Stagecoach PLC still exists then kindly advise why my subsational holding has been compulsory purchased by the above entity . STAGECOACH PLC does not exist or do yourself & others in Devon do not understand how legal entities exist in England?
ReplyDeleteSorry if I upset you - but I wasn't correcting you as such. The legal entity may well be DWS Group - I am just pointing out that they are very much still trading as Stagecoach and that 99% of people will know them as that. Who knows if that will change over time but very few people on the street will know or care who or what DWS is. For the vast majority of passengers its the name on the side of the bus that they will know. That often bears no resemblance to the actual operating company name. I will therefore continue to call them Stagecoach in the blog unless the new owners decide to call themselves something different.
DeleteThe legal owner of Stagecoach is now DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA, others & yourself may quote incorrect details however my comments will always reflect the ACTUAL legal name of the company quoted if I followed your wierd interpretation of legal entities then I would be daily using The Birmingham Coach Company Limited and not Rotala PLC. If you don't want my comments on your excellent website just say instead of these ridiculous obtuse remarks which are frankly uncalled for the choice is yours.
ReplyDeleteIm sorry you take it this way. I am not saying anything you say is in anyway incorrect. However. my point is that the vast majority of people will call them Stagecoach as that's what they call themselves. That's what they have on the side of their buses.
ReplyDeleteBack to your original point "various stakeholders in the South West have made representations to the Office of Traffic Commissioner in regard to an DTS operating company based in Exeter" Those complaints were submitted to the Traffic Commissioner by Devon County Councillors (and possibly others) against Stagecoach Devon Ltd Trading as Stagecoach South West. I would be amazed if DWS are even mentioned in the TCs report.
You are more than welcome to continue to post comments here, and more than welcome to call them DWS if you like, but most of the rest of us will continue to call them Stagecoach while that's what they call themselves on their buses.
And in any case Mr Jones' comments are irrelevant and incorrect because Stagecoach Group plc still exists, a company registered in England and Wales, and Stagecoach Devon Ltd is a subsidiary of Stagecoach Group plc. No different the fact that Arriva Group plc still exists despite being owned Deutsche Bahn AG.
DeleteIt would like calling Stagecoach "Brian Souter" in the days when he held a majority shareholding.
So ignore the nonsense and carry on as before - you were correct all along.
Stagecoach PLC has been delisted from the London Stock Exchange. You can no longer buy or trade shares in Stagecoach PLC it now a wholly owned subsidiary of DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA, Kindly get your facts right before criticising my comments. Stagecoach PLC is no longer a Public Limited Company the legal owner is DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA, If tomorrow you can do trade in Stagecoach PLC shares I will kindly retract my comments if you can't then the business is now DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA,
DeleteIn addition Stagecoach PLC is now actually controlled for UK regulatory purposes by Inframobility Uk Bidco Limited a wholly owned subsidiary of DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA so the above comments are simply wrong. Whatever anyone might think all UK subsidiarys are now Germany controlled by DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA which is the correct legal entity to use. All our Commonwealth Games post games procurement is addressed to DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA while wind up the contact & NOT Stagecoach PLC which is a simple business entity registered within the UK
DeleteIt is also worth noting that whilst the above annoymous individual describes my comments as nonsense which is frankly uncalled for when my comments factually correct as a member of Birmingham Companies House Focus Group it should be remembered that Arriva PLC is controlled by Db (Uk) Investments Limited a wholly owned subsidiary of Detuche Bahn AG & controlled from Germany.
DeleteMany companies that we think of being 'British' are owned by foreign companies / banks / venture capital investors but don't usually trade under the name of whoever ultimately owns them, and the customers who buy those products or services, be it a bus ticket or a bar or chocolate certainly don't refer to those companies in such a way - for example Tetley Tea, Jaguar cars, Dulux Paint, Walkers Crisps, Rolls Royce Cars, Asda, Virgin Media, Walls ice cream, Mini cars, Manchester United, Newcastle Brown Ale etc etc.
ReplyDeleteNobody that lives here in Plymouth walks out the front door and thinks "I'm going to hop on the next Kinetic Group/Globalvia bus" (Plymouth CityBus) and likewise nobody in the country stands in the pouring rain thinking "Where has that DWS Group GmbH & Co KGaA Bus got to". (Stagecoach).
It's a bus service, it's just a product like anything else a large corporate or multinational tries to sell to punters. It's the brand name... CityBus or Stagecoach, that's what punters know it by and that's how those companies will continue to brand it.
BTW, Stagecoach is a Scottish company, not an English company, Stagecoach Group PLC is incorporated in Scotland and registered in Scotland, and as such trade under the name of the company, Stagecoach, in Scotland and funny old England, putting the name of their company, Stagecoach, on the side of the buses.
The OfRC will be holding DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA to account as they are the owners of Stagecoach Devon Limited. On the various occasions I have been asked to provide evidence to the OfTC in Edgbaston in regard to Diamond Bus Ltd the legal papers served cite Rotala PLC. The sooner everyone realises Stagecoach PLC no longer exists the better the legal owner of Stagecoach Devon Limited is quite simply DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA whatever you keep posting. I trust this brings this bizarre matter to a close and you finally accept Stagecoach only exists as a trading name only & is of no consequence to the matter of legal ownership which lies with DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA,
ReplyDeleteTake a chill pill Richard, we don't come here to be lectured.
DeleteStagecoach Devon Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stagecoach Transport Holdings Limited (registered at Companies House, Edinburgh - Sc183051), the holding company for the Stagecoach bus subsidiaries. Stagecoach Transport Holdings Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stagecoach Group plc (registered at Companies House, Edinburgh - SC100764). Stagecoach Group plc is a wholly owned subsidiary of Inframobility UK Bidco Limited, which is owned by PEIF III LUXCO TWO S.A R.L. (a company registered in Luxembourg). Stagecoach does NOT only exist as a trading name - there are still over thirty companies owned by Stagecoach Group plc which are registered in England and Wales, Scotland and Sweden which are still separate legal entities and not merely 'trading names'!
DeleteThat Stagecoach Group plc no longer exists will be news to both Companies House and Stagecoach itself:
Deletehttps://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC100764
https://www.stagecoachgroup.com/
I am not here to lecture anyone James but simply explain the legal owner of the entity formerly known as Stagecoach PLC which no longer trades on the LSE as for chill pills I personally enjoy Opal Fruits when they available in the UK & to a lesser extent Starburst both brands of MARS a company ultimately controlled from the USA.
DeletePEIF III LUXCO TWO S.A R.L. is a holding company based in Luxembourg for regulatory purposes and wholly owned by DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA based in Germany
DeleteThe legal entity is DWS Group GmbH & Co KGaA and the operating company based in Exeter is owned by organisation based in Germany it is not Scottish in any definition
ReplyDeleteThanks everyone for the comments re the legal entities of Stagecoach but I think its time to call an end to it before it starts getting personal. For the record whilst agreeing that the legal entities may well be DWS the company trades as Stagecoach. That's who people know them as so that's what they will continue to be called here. If at some time in the future they rebrand then we will go with the branding. For the many people who come here to read about their local buses they will know who we mean by Stagecoach. thanks again for the lively debate!
ReplyDeleteJust to let everyone know I have been asked by OfTC to provide evidence of DWS Group GmbH & Co KGaA operations at The Commonwealth Games
ReplyDeleteAh, you mean Stagecoach……
Deletewind up merchants everywhere
DeleteNot on the paperwork I have received from OfTC 🤣
ReplyDeleteWell that’s odd as the Companies House website shows the operating company as Stagecoach Devon Ltd, in turn owned by Stagecoach Group, with controlling party of the group Inframobility Bidco. So both subsidiary and holding company still very much Stagecoach - just a different shareholder.
ReplyDeleteNothing odd about it, its the ultimate holding company that is legally responsible when Diamond Bus are before the OfTC its listed as Rotala PLC. Everyone has the wrong idea about Companies House it exists simply to maintain a register of companies & dorectors in England & Wales , Scotland & Northern Ireland and any other interests in the companies,any company legal actions are cited via HMRC & the Corporation Tax register.
ReplyDeleteStagecoach PLC no longer trades on the London Stock Market. The company is now a wholly owned subsidiary of
PEIF III LUXCO TWO S.A R.L. which itself is a holding company based in Luxembourg for regulatory purposes and wholly owned by DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA based in Germany . Stagecoach PLC exists simply for CT600 purposes legally.
Goodness me. For most people's needs, the ultimate holding company is completely irrelevant outside of legal technicalities, so Anon 22:01 is quite correct in what he says. Stagecoach Devon Ltd is an English company, registered in England & Wales, even if the ultimate owners are now German. Likewise Stagecoach Group PLC is a Scottish company, registered in Scotland (and now German-owned... and for all practical purposes, that is irrelevant).
DeleteIf you are going to be so pedantic, then perhaps you could take the trouble to get the company name right. There is no "Stagecoach PLC,
Sorry I hit the Publish button too soon (fat fingers? small coment box?). There is no "Stagecoach PLC", it is, and has been for many years, "Stagecoach Group PLC". It exists as the intermediate holding company for Stagecoach's companies registered in England & Wales, and for those in Scotland. Whether it is listed on the LSE or not is neither here nor there.
DeleteStagecoach PLC no longer trades on the LSE it is simply held on the register at Companies House within in England & Wales as the NOMINAL owner of Stagecoach Devon Limited. Stagecoach PLC is for regulatory purposes is registered at Companies House as a company registered in Scotland however Corporation Tax Laws remain within the Westminster Parliament. Stagecoach PLC is now a wholly owned subsidiary of PEIF III LUXCO TWO S.A R.L. which itself is a holding company based in Luxembourg for regulatory purposes and wholly owned by DWS Group GambH & Co KGaA based in Germany to where any corporate issues would be addressed.
DeleteEr no. The TC takes action (or not) against the holder of the Operator Licence, in this case Stagecoach Devon Ltd. PEIF Luxco or whatever it is called doesn’t to my knowledge hold an Operator Licence, so whilst the TC may be critical and say nasty things, he can only take action against the O Licence holder or its Transport Manager. He could even call every subsidiary with an O Licence to a PI. And take action against all, some, or none. But not a holding or group company with no O Licence. It is true to say the publicity would not be good for the group however.
ReplyDeleteErr YES you are WRONG the OfTC when making decisions is only legally bothered with taking action & laying responsibility with the ultimate owner of company from where the O licence ultimately is controlled from. Having given evidence in Edgbaston to OfTC over the last 20 years for hearings for The Birmingham Coach Company Ltd, City Buslines Ltd, First Midland Red Buses Limited, Midland Red (South) Limited, Arriva Midlands North Limited & Diamond Bus Limited & represented another coach company to the OfTC & got the case dismissed don't belittle my posts the ultimate owner is legally responsible in case law yes the operating company appears at the hearing but the ultimate owner pays any penalty & is legally responsible. I will NOT be entering into any more discussions on this subject unless someone can provide case law to prove otherwise & trust this brings this matter to a close Graham.
ReplyDeleteThis is the last comment on this subject! We will continue to refer to them as Stagecoach for simplicity as thats what they call themselves on their buses and thats the name on the operators licence. Thanks all for the lively debate
Delete