157 has lost her Green Flash livery and is currently running in plain red, presumably waiting to gain the red lines – or will it be swoops for Plymouth Citybus. I believe she did carry Transport for Cornwall names for a short while
One of the 65 plate E200s is going around at the moment with the GCB on the front having been spray painted over in red! I’m sure most wouldn’t notice, but if you do, it does look absolutely dreadful! Surely that’s more effort to deal with now too than pealing it off would have been!
154 - still in TfC red 155 - in plain red with TfC lettering removed 156 - still Green with bit white stickers over wording 157 - as shown 158 - unknown - maybe the one with red painted sticker 159 - still green with top lettering stuck over with white stickers but shows GreenFlash on sides As at 19/11/20
It also looks like the Spark double decks are being de-branded, I've seen two without vinyls, looks like more of the good stuff is heading to Cornwall leaving Plymouth with the naff stuff!
I would be surprised if they were planning anything for January while we are still under covid rules unless its a tender change. As for the future then maybe if they are planning it then it would liven things up a bit!
Only thing I can think of if true is city college tender (36) or Plymouth city council tender routes currently with Stagecoach although I thought this was 8 year contract starting in 2018?
Spark buses still in Spark livery today (23/11/20) - 551, 554, 559, 564. However, 564 was on 20A 65, 69, 71, 376 and 476 were all out on 21/21A today 62 on route 23
Now that would be big news. Doing what routes ? Taking over Stagecoach routes to Tavistock, Plymstock and Park and Rides or are Stagecoach staying too? Would add up with reports of Stagecoach going up their PCC contracts as well.
Stagecoach are loosing most of their tenders so they're deciding to pull out, they'll take over every single route and be running some new tenders and their own made-up routes to compete with other operators, they've bought 100 new buses, ranging from ADL/Wrightbus doubles and singles and getting some older stock from other parts of the UK, some from Cornwall, Bristol, Bath, Wales etc
Goodness me, it only seems like yesterday that Stagecoach came in to replace the ever worsening fleet of First buses. Shame to see them go really, Citybus probably pushed them out with the 42 at George Junction!
There does seem to be quite a lot of speculation about First returning to Plymouth next year but is there anything definite at all? Would like First to return and give Go Ahead some competition but how do they think they can make a success of Plymouth when they couldn't before? If it is true I wish them all the luck.
It would be nice to see First back but have not heard anything official about this. Stagecoach have done good with the few routes they have but have showed zero ambition to build the network in Plymouth at least First had a go and if true and with it being better run now I am sure could have a go at Cutybus again especially as PCB are muscling in on their turf in mid and west Cornwall
In regards to First I believe it is education contracts under their Truronian coaching division and similar associated coach based contract work rather than the bus side gaining work - similar has happened at Exeter where they have opened a site there. It is possible that they have agreed to rent some space at The Ride to park their vehicles, it probably has plenty of spare space to park and has maintenance facilities available to use whilst there is the previous relationship from the sale to begin the negotiations.
I note today that First are advertising for bus drivers based in Plymouth full time, interviewing in January. This would allow them the training needed to go live April. Another thing i notice is that another vacancy locally states fixed term college contract specifically whereas the Plymouth vacancy actually states permanent on Plymouth UK bus network? Maybe Reading more into this than fact but fits in with other comments, Stagecoach suddenly dumping their PCC contracts and they already have drivers for all their college contracts in Plymouth area
I don't understand why first are coming back to Plymouth they left because Plymouth did not make any money, they were very expensive for very little routes they had, unreliable and busses were so old and terrible
Like I say it is only rumour but FK is a much better run ship than it was in FDC days so they may feel with a bit of investment they can make a go if it personally I found their fares in the last few years to be very reasonable compared to Ciybus. Plus PCB have muscled in on their territory so they may feel this is the best course of action, namely attack is best sort if defence
I notice a sudden surge of beach ball Stagecoach buses in Plymouth is this getting them done to move to Exeter and Torbay before closing Plymouth next year perhaps? Making use of The Ride facilities whilst they have it?
26/11/20 - 555 (21) 556 (21A), 557 (21), 561 (21A) and 563 (21) are seen in service today in full Spark livery With 551, 554, 558, 559, 560, 562, 564 all mentioned as sited above that's at least 12 still in full Spark livery. 475 - not withdrawn, in service today on 34 70 in service on 40
All Spark buses still have their liveries - the SPARK on the side of the bus is becoming quite faded on some of them however making it easy to mistake it as being removed - the bad weather and dirt also doesn't help!
I don’t really have a view either way whether Stagecoach remain or First return, but I would say that what Plymouth is crying out for is some competition that will benefit the passenger. If it’s First, then they need to make sure they come with a decent fleet rather than aging sheds, and they need to compete along key corridors or in suburbs that are cast aside or frequently on the receiving end of poor or unreliable service.
There’s no reason two operators couldn’t succeed in the City boundaries, and providing it is done well, the passengers could have a lot to gain from it!
Yes agreed we need another big operator in city giving Go Ahead some good competition on main corridors and in some of the forgotten estates like Pennycross and Honicknowle etc . First have provided good services here before and did quite well even with old buses, think what they could do with newer buses and good fare structure! I think either Stagecoach or First could do this but I feel only First are prepared to do it as Stagecoach don't seem bothered and have allowed Citybus to take customers off them. First would fight up against them i am sure although it wouldn't be long before Citybus would make a move on Tavistock route again i am sure.
Plymouth has had three bus wars since the first in 1988, why would a fourth have any different outcome? I diasagree witb the above comment - there is a very good reason why Stagecoach hasn't gone head to head with PCB any more than they already do and the three previous bouts of competition shows why. As for competing in "suburbs that are cast aside" or "on the receiving end of poor [levels of?] service" then why, when these areas can't support on operator, let alone two?
More importantly, any operator who is contemplating head to head competition in the middle of a pandemic when existing services are already on the receiving end of government bail-outs and patronage is decemated would (a) need their head examining and (b) would be on an absolute hiding to nothing. Operators receiving government support are only allowed to break-even and starting new services in needless competition would be completely bizarre at best and downright foolhardy at worst.
At the moment I still haven't seen anything official re this so it is all speculation really but if First are returning I expect it will be slowly and from April when hopefully we will start to see the back of Covid and all operators will be almost starting again in terms of getting customers on board so could be a good time to start.
Citybus seem to have changed their branding again on the newer of the latest timetables - the "lines" seem to have gone, and the TFC "shapes" seem to have made their way into Citybus branding - will be interesting to see what this does for the Citybus fleet which are being repainted - as pointed out - most have just been repainted red, with a white Citybus logo on the front.
First are now advertising for bus drivers at UK bus division based in Plymouth. I note the other jobs available in Cornwall are fixed term but Plymouth vacancies permanent. Jobs to start early 2021!
Anonymous1 December 2020 at 21:50 someone has said before that stageocach was expected to close there plymouth depot once they withdraw there services, currently looking like stagecoach will say bye to plymouth on everything and first to replace once again?
Yeah I noticed that one too. Could just be Google still have them listed at The Ride but I am sure this would have been noticed before No previous jobs have stated permanent or been based at The Ride
Has anyone heard anything official re Stagecoach withdrawal and First taking over the routes? If so from when and will Stagecoach drivers TUPE over to First? How will Falcon continue with no Plymouth base for Stagecoach?
Stagecoach are changing some timetables from January... most just minor things but main change is service 2/2a INCREASED from every 15 to every 10 mins.. could this be precursor to First coming in, increasing competition with Citybus on what was one of Firsts main routes? Seems strange to increase frequency in covid times for any other reason?
2/2A only finally going back to original pre covid timetable so not an increase as such, just to give drivers from dumped council contracts some duty lines !!
Got to say the mere mention of First coming back has certainly livened things up hasn't it. It has become a little stale with Stagecoach and Citybus leaving each other alone. So for that reason alone I would welcome First back to Plymouth as long as of course they give Stagecoach staff a job and as advert suggests give more locals employment
One other thing I notice as well is that Stagecoach published their 2020 consultation in February, all area changes got postponed by Covid but changes have gradually been introduced in Exeter, Torbay and East Devon but Plymouth changes haven't happened including in January 2021 alterations.
2207 has ended up with the "Lines" livery and looks, frankly, awful. covering the majority of the middle window where the doors used to be, finishing just behind the rear wheel - the Citybus logo also looks absolutely massive - makes the whole bus looks tiny.
Report elsewhere that First have started offer contracts for drivers in Plymouth starting early March. These are drivers interviewed in Cornwall for Plymouth based work. Interviews in Plymouth for more this week I believe
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One of the 65 plate E200s is going around at the moment with the GCB on the front having been spray painted over in red! I’m sure most wouldn’t notice, but if you do, it does look absolutely dreadful! Surely that’s more effort to deal with now too than pealing it off would have been!
ReplyDeleteI saw two others from the same batch, one in plain red, the other in tfc livery
ReplyDelete154 - still in TfC red
ReplyDelete155 - in plain red with TfC lettering removed
156 - still Green with bit white stickers over wording
157 - as shown
158 - unknown - maybe the one with red painted sticker
159 - still green with top lettering stuck over with white stickers but shows GreenFlash on sides
As at 19/11/20
155 is in debranded Swoops and is the Go Cornwall Red Sticker bus. I dont think its been painted over but poorly removed
DeleteIt also looks like the Spark double decks are being de-branded, I've seen two without vinyls, looks like more of the good stuff is heading to Cornwall leaving Plymouth with the naff stuff!
ReplyDeleteThe E400 Citys aren't particularly great at dealing with longer distance trips from what's been said of them. Unlikely they'll go to Cornwall.
ReplyDeleteHi has anyone herd a rumour that first bus maybe doing some routes in Plymouth from January 2021
ReplyDeleteBlimey where did you get that from. What routes?
DeleteIs this college routes, tenders or commercial?
DeleteI would be surprised if they were planning anything for January while we are still under covid rules unless its a tender change. As for the future then maybe if they are planning it then it would liven things up a bit!
DeleteOnly thing I can think of if true is city college tender (36) or Plymouth city council tender routes currently with Stagecoach although I thought this was 8 year contract starting in 2018?
DeleteThere was an unconfirmed rumour re SC not continuing its City Council contracts?!
DeleteSpark buses still in Spark livery today (23/11/20) - 551, 554, 559, 564.
ReplyDeleteHowever, 564 was on 20A
65, 69, 71, 376 and 476 were all out on 21/21A today
62 on route 23
They are taking over The Ride in April 2021
ReplyDeleteNow that would be big news. Doing what routes ? Taking over Stagecoach routes to Tavistock, Plymstock and Park and Rides or are Stagecoach staying too? Would add up with reports of Stagecoach going up their PCC contracts as well.
DeleteStagecoach are loosing most of their tenders so they're deciding to pull out, they'll take over every single route and be running some new tenders and their own made-up routes to compete with other operators, they've bought 100 new buses, ranging from ADL/Wrightbus doubles and singles and getting some older stock from other parts of the UK, some from Cornwall, Bristol, Bath, Wales etc
DeleteGoodness me, it only seems like yesterday that Stagecoach came in to replace the ever worsening fleet of First buses. Shame to see them go really, Citybus probably pushed them out with the 42 at George Junction!
DeleteThere does seem to be quite a lot of speculation about First returning to Plymouth next year but is there anything definite at all? Would like First to return and give Go Ahead some competition but how do they think they can make a success of Plymouth when they couldn't before? If it is true I wish them all the luck.
DeleteIt would be nice to see First back but have not heard anything official about this. Stagecoach have done good with the few routes they have but have showed zero ambition to build the network in Plymouth at least First had a go and if true and with it being better run now I am sure could have a go at Cutybus again especially as PCB are muscling in on their turf in mid and west Cornwall
Delete24/11/20 - 563, 558 still in Spark livery, and were on 21A and 21 respectively
ReplyDelete20/11/20 - Also meant to say also, 70 in service on 40, and 72 on 44A
ReplyDeleteIn regards to First I believe it is education contracts under their Truronian coaching division and similar associated coach based contract work rather than the bus side gaining work - similar has happened at Exeter where they have opened a site there. It is possible that they have agreed to rent some space at The Ride to park their vehicles, it probably has plenty of spare space to park and has maintenance facilities available to use whilst there is the previous relationship from the sale to begin the negotiations.
ReplyDeleteThey already run college services in Plymouth and share a base with local company at Lee Mill i believe
DeleteI note today that First are advertising for bus drivers based in Plymouth full time, interviewing in January. This would allow them the training needed to go live April. Another thing i notice is that another vacancy locally states fixed term college contract specifically whereas the Plymouth vacancy actually states permanent on Plymouth UK bus network? Maybe Reading more into this than fact but fits in with other comments, Stagecoach suddenly dumping their PCC contracts and they already have drivers for all their college contracts in Plymouth area
Delete25/11/20 - 70 on route 50A and 72 on route 5 seen in service today
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why first are coming back to Plymouth they left because Plymouth did not make any money, they were very expensive for very little routes they had, unreliable and busses were so old and terrible
ReplyDeleteLike I say it is only rumour but FK is a much better run ship than it was in FDC days so they may feel with a bit of investment they can make a go if it personally I found their fares in the last few years to be very reasonable compared to Ciybus. Plus PCB have muscled in on their territory so they may feel this is the best course of action, namely attack is best sort if defence
DeleteHi Spotterz Do you mind me asking where this info comes from please? Is it official at all?
ReplyDeleteI notice a sudden surge of beach ball Stagecoach buses in Plymouth is this getting them done to move to Exeter and Torbay before closing Plymouth next year perhaps? Making use of The Ride facilities whilst they have it?
ReplyDelete26/11/20 - 555 (21) 556 (21A), 557 (21), 561 (21A) and 563 (21) are seen in service today in full Spark livery
ReplyDeleteWith 551, 554, 558, 559, 560, 562, 564 all mentioned as sited above that's at least 12 still in full Spark livery.
475 - not withdrawn, in service today on 34
70 in service on 40
Has anyone actually seen a debranded Spark bus? I certainly havnt!
DeleteAll Spark buses still have their liveries - the SPARK on the side of the bus is becoming quite faded on some of them however making it easy to mistake it as being removed - the bad weather and dirt also doesn't help!
DeleteI don’t really have a view either way whether Stagecoach remain or First return, but I would say that what Plymouth is crying out for is some competition that will benefit the passenger.
ReplyDeleteIf it’s First, then they need to make sure they come with a decent fleet rather than aging sheds, and they need to compete along key corridors or in suburbs that are cast aside or frequently on the receiving end of poor or unreliable service.
There’s no reason two operators couldn’t succeed in the City boundaries, and providing it is done well, the passengers could have a lot to gain from it!
Yes agreed we need another big operator in city giving Go Ahead some good competition on main corridors and in some of the forgotten estates like Pennycross and Honicknowle etc . First have provided good services here before and did quite well even with old buses, think what they could do with newer buses and good fare structure! I think either Stagecoach or First could do this but I feel only First are prepared to do it as Stagecoach don't seem bothered and have allowed Citybus to take customers off them. First would fight up against them i am sure although it wouldn't be long before Citybus would make a move on Tavistock route again i am sure.
DeletePlymouth has had three bus wars since the first in 1988, why would a fourth have any different outcome? I diasagree witb the above comment - there is a very good reason why Stagecoach hasn't gone head to head with PCB any more than they already do and the three previous bouts of competition shows why. As for competing in "suburbs that are cast aside" or "on the receiving end of poor [levels of?] service" then why, when these areas can't support on operator, let alone two?
DeleteMore importantly, any operator who is contemplating head to head competition in the middle of a pandemic when existing services are already on the receiving end of government bail-outs and patronage is decemated would (a) need their head examining and (b) would be on an absolute hiding to nothing. Operators receiving government support are only allowed to break-even and starting new services in needless competition would be completely bizarre at best and downright foolhardy at worst.
At the moment I still haven't seen anything official re this so it is all speculation really but if First are returning I expect it will be slowly and from April when hopefully we will start to see the back of Covid and all operators will be almost starting again in terms of getting customers on board so could be a good time to start.
ReplyDeleteCitybus seem to have changed their branding again on the newer of the latest timetables - the "lines" seem to have gone, and the TFC "shapes" seem to have made their way into Citybus branding - will be interesting to see what this does for the Citybus fleet which are being repainted - as pointed out - most have just been repainted red, with a white Citybus logo on the front.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know whats going on with the single decks being repainted plain red? Have they not got a livery yet?
DeleteFirst are now advertising for bus drivers at UK bus division based in Plymouth. I note the other jobs available in Cornwall are fixed term but Plymouth vacancies permanent. Jobs to start early 2021!
ReplyDeleteAlso noticed on the advertisement that The Ride is listed as the depot!
DeleteAnonymous1 December 2020 at 21:50
Deletesomeone has said before that stageocach was expected to close there plymouth depot once they withdraw there services, currently looking like stagecoach will say bye to plymouth on everything and first to replace once again?
Yeah I noticed that one too. Could just be Google still have them listed at The Ride but I am sure this would have been noticed before No previous jobs have stated permanent or been based at The Ride
DeleteHas anyone heard anything official re Stagecoach withdrawal and First taking over the routes? If so from when and will Stagecoach drivers TUPE over to First? How will Falcon continue with no Plymouth base for Stagecoach?
ReplyDeleteFalcon could be run from Patchway, alongside Megabus.
DeleteAnon 2 Dec 2010: the back-up plan for Falcon was running it from Matford if Plymouth wasn't available was last I heard couple of years back.
DeleteIt appears Stagecoach will keep PCC tenders 2a,19 and 31. All others to PCB except 52 Oakleys Not sure why Stagecoach have kept those few routes?
ReplyDeleteStagecoach are changing some timetables from January... most just minor things but main change is service 2/2a INCREASED from every 15 to every 10 mins.. could this be precursor to First coming in, increasing competition with Citybus on what was one of Firsts main routes? Seems strange to increase frequency in covid times for any other reason?
ReplyDelete2/2A only finally going back to original pre covid timetable so not an increase as such, just to give drivers from dumped council contracts some duty lines !!
DeleteGot to say the mere mention of First coming back has certainly livened things up hasn't it. It has become a little stale with Stagecoach and Citybus leaving each other alone. So for that reason alone I would welcome First back to Plymouth as long as of course they give Stagecoach staff a job and as advert suggests give more locals employment
ReplyDeleteOne other thing I notice as well is that Stagecoach published their 2020 consultation in February, all area changes got postponed by Covid but changes have gradually been introduced in Exeter, Torbay and East Devon but Plymouth changes haven't happened including in January 2021 alterations.
ReplyDelete2207 has ended up with the "Lines" livery and looks, frankly, awful. covering the majority of the middle window where the doors used to be, finishing just behind the rear wheel - the Citybus logo also looks absolutely massive - makes the whole bus looks tiny.
ReplyDeleteReport elsewhere that First have started offer contracts for drivers in Plymouth starting early March. These are drivers interviewed in Cornwall for Plymouth based work. Interviews in Plymouth for more this week I believe
ReplyDelete