Bus
operator, First South West, today (10 July 2015) signed an agreement to
sell its operations in South Devon to Stagecoach. On completion of the
sale, expected to conclude 6 September 2015, the Plymouth bus depot,
outstations at Tavistock and Dartmouth and around 250 staff will
transfer to Stagecoach.
Alex
Carter, Managing Director of First South West, said: “Despite the focus
on services and the hard work of everyone in South Devon, unfortunately
the business has underperformed for a number of years. I’m pleased
we’ve negotiated an agreement to sell and therefore help protect jobs
and key services.
“The
sale does not, in any way, reflect the commitment of our employees in
the area who have worked tirelessly to provide the best possible service
to local communities. I’d like to thank them for their hard work and
loyalty over the years. We will be fully supporting them as they
transfer to their new employer.
Good news for my mates at First Plymouth your employment has been made more secure for the future. NOT sure that it is good news for Plmouth bus, could well be an epic bus war between , GO AHEAD & STAGECOACH, wouldn't like to say which firm will win, but obviously as a retired bus driver of 40 yrs and some, hope its Stagecoach
ReplyDeleteReally can't see Stagecoach wanting to get involved in an "epic bus war" with Citybus. They backed off from buying the operation previously, so clearly something has changed between then and now and I'm not sure that First's Plymouth routes will be especially attractive to Stagecoach, after all if First are struggling to make the numbers add up, Stagecoach will face much the same difficulties. Perhaps it's a simple as they've negotiated a more favourable price than was on the table a couple of years ago. Indeed, I suspect it's the modern depot facility itself that's the real draw. Stagecoach has several bits of work that could be relatively easily moved into Plymouth to reduce pressure on Exeter and Torquay depots which are both completely maxxed out. After that, it will be interesting to see what plans they have. An express service into Cornwall would be welcome but I won't hold my breath!
DeleteI dont really see a big bus war either. It wouldnt suprise me if at some stage in the future there is a bit of readjusting between the two companies. As for the depot, I though that it was due to be sold for development at some stage in the future?
DeleteCompletely agree with the above. I suspect Stagecoach have done this to protect it's position east of Plymouth - and, to be honest, it would have been unlikely that Go-Ahead would have been allowed to buy First's work anyway. As no financial figures are included in the press release, we cannot tell how Stagecoach are going to play this one, but the depot will be probably very handy in improving services between Plymouth and more established Stagecoach territory. There's no reason at the moment to think that Go-Ahead and Stagecoach will not co-exist peacefully, indeed they work together happily in Tyne & Wear and Oxford. However, I hope Plymouth Citybus will up their game a little now: the Go-Ahead ethos has usually been 'quality, not quantity', something which I don't think has always been heeded in Milehouse?
DeleteExeter Belegrave RD is due to be sold, with operations moving to Matford in 2 years time.
DeleteNorth Devon ring a bell to anyone, will it be approved or will it be a stagecoach register first withdraw again, we will wait and see
ReplyDeleteVery different to North Devon as there is strong competition here in Plymouth. Cant see any reason why it wouldn't go ahead this time.
DeleteI agree with Graham - there is no reason why it shouldn't go ahead.
DeleteAlso, a very sensible analysis by Anon @ 16:44. I can only assume that Stagecoach accept that there will be losses in the short term. It will be very interesting to see what Stagecoach do to the network over the coming months, and (perhaps in the longer term) whether any operations are moved into the new area.
I did wonder whether Tally Ho might have their eyes on the 93 at some point. Not now!
I notice that Torpoint outstation is not mentioned - three options come to mind ...
ReplyDelete(1) It will also be sold to Stagecoach as the parent depot is Plymouth
(2) It will still run but the parent depot will switch to Camborne
(3) The Torpoint operations will cease leaving the area to Plymouth Citybus ...
It all makes sense - SCSW need a maintenance facility outside of Exeter. As someone said they are maxed out at Torquay and Exeter. With a new depot on the cards at Exeter an additional facility will be of use even if the Ride site is closed under compulsory purchase that will not be for some time yet. They can move Gold and X38 work here to reduce positional mileage. Megabus maintenance and likely a base for Megabus work. I can't see them wanting to take on PCB. They will have taken on the liabilities of FDC so will not have money to burn, cost control will be a priority. Some movement on competing routes may well occur after a bedding in period. South Hams services will be more secure. I expect a management cull as they already have a head office, giving some instant cost savings. It will at least be good to have another professional operator in Plymouth.
ReplyDeleteThe maintenance situation is interesting as it gives Stagecoach substantial facilities in Devon, along with the forthcoming new depot at Exeter, which combined will allow plenty of scope for the future. I don't get the suggestion of Plymouth becoming a Megabus base - that's been mentioned here before - but there's nothing like anything approaching the volume of Megabus workings into Devon/Cornwall for that to make any sense without a massive expansion which would seem unlikely, plus Plymouth is a long way from the bulk of the Megabus network.
DeleteIt does raise the question of how First will look after their Cornish fleet, which of course, is significantly bigger now than it was even twelve months ago, yet didn't I read that they'd also closed the Penzance workshops? Can Camborne still look after the whole of the Cornish fleet, including repaints and heavy docking, for example, some of which was always done at Plymouth?
I'd also question that Stagecoach will have taken on some of FDC's liabilities - such as what? They've not bought the company, just AFAICS the depot and plant, plus the staff and associated responsibilities. They'll have any losses on routes that aren't covering their costs from September, yes, but we don't yet know if they're registering the whole of the existing First network. That's not a given, surely. Any existing shortfalls and debts are more likely to remain with First Devon & Cornwall Ltd.
FDC has already separated its maintenance for Kernow and its all now undertaken in Cornwall. The do indeed maintain a hugely increased fleet down there. However it's widely known that they are looking to invest in more depot space in Cornwall. They currently have DDA buses due from West Yorkshire and Sometset and Avon and all the Devon DDA fleet allocated to them, although a chunk are staying on loan to Stagecoach until new year.
DeleteAny source for this?
ReplyDeleteNothing on either the first or stagecoach websites about it, which would be the norm for this type of announcement.
The announcement would be the source.
DeleteI think before anyone goes off on one about "bus wars or our buses are better than yours",people should think about the staff who are entering a period of uncertainty in the near future.This announcement I feel answers a lot of previously unanswered questions and speculation and hopefully the staff will transfer over without any fuss.The driver is the first person representing First D&C and over the last few months/years I feel have done a magnificent job working through the fog cascaded down from above.This is from someone with no preference over any bus company whatsoever but feels there are interesting times ahead.
ReplyDeleteAh-ha! This is what the 'more exciting changes' probably meant in this article! ;-)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.route-one.net/industry/operations/stagecoach-south-west-how-to-keep-on-growing/
(I'll shut up now!)
This is bad news as far as it will be a shame to see First go after all these years from Plymouth, but i do think that Stagecoach will make a go of it in Plymouth ad i am sure will look to expand... Bet they will not be as cheap as First though which is a real shame. Good luck to all at First hope all goes well.
ReplyDeleteI think its more likely Stagecoach will begin to shake things up a bit, try to bring some sort of profitability, since Exmouth 57 is meant to be getting new Gold E400s, and MMCs for the Park & Ride, I wonder if some of the fleet will go down to Plymouth? Stagecoach do have a very good record of turning around weak parts of companies. Question is will we Stagecoach Plymouth? or Stagecoach South West?
ReplyDeletewish all the staff at first devon good luck for the future and hopefully some stability. in oxford, go ahead and stagecoach work together, so don't see why it couldn't work here?
ReplyDeleteSeveral unknowns at this stage - will Stagecoach take on any of the current First Devon fleet as part of the takeoverr or bring in their own vehicles? What will happen to the First Devon buses recently repainted - transfer elsewhere? Future route network and any outstation closures?
ReplyDeleteAs others have said if First could not make a success of Plymouth how do Stagecoach attempt to do it?
I am sorry to see First go from Plymouth and thought that they might be turning a corner but suppose with major investment in replacement buses to meet looming DDA deadlines they decided to quit now rather than throw any more money at it.
Good luck to Stagecoach and hope there are no redundancies as a result of the takeover .
All recent repaints to post euro 3 vehicles (except park ans ride) haven't been branded Devon on the side, or had the little stickers stating "This bus is maintained by Plymouth depot". So all this stock will be moved to either Cornwall or Somerset, and the remaining none DDA compliant vehicles need to have excessive money spent on them to bring them into compliancy or be replaced. So I can see a new fleet being bought to Plymouth. But it is an uncertainty, all the staff have been told is Stagecoach is taking over on September 6th. Everything else is Purley speculation. It's a worrying time for me and all my collegues, lets hope it all works out for the best and the management that have run First in South Devon in recent times get their jobs reviewed by Stagecoach and and told "Don't come Monday!"
Deletefrom all reports no first buses are staying and the couple of good ones are going to cornwall, the rest are being sold to new age travellers
DeletePlymouth Citybus and stagecoach already work together in North Devon/Cornwall so I expect much the same in Plymouth.
ReplyDeleteNothing serious will happen anytime soon, stagecoach will need to sort Plymouth out first before they start expanding, like others I feel they got a bargain garage more then anything.
I see Stagecoach have some entries on VOSA already. 1 will be Tavistock. 2 to Mountbatten still. Not much else there yet. But if 1 is Tavistock does that mean they could be pulling out if Saltash?
ReplyDeleteUnlikely to pull out of Saltash, one of the most profitable routes.
DeleteCould you possibly post a link to these please?
DeleteI can not find any such VOSA entries are they any more yet ? I can't see SC pulling out of Saltash, it's a good route. May be pulling out of routes like the 76 might be on the cards...putting more of the resources into Plymouth.
Deletei think this will be good for staff at the Ride.. and probably in long run for customers. It will only be bad news for GA / PCB. They i beleve PCB will rue the day they pushed First out and after 12/18 months of SC will prey for First to come back!
Watch the downturn at Citybus start fairly rapidly! This is the best news.
ReplyDeleteThis explains why all the new repaints don't have names on them. A great shame that First have thrown in the towel after all these years.
ReplyDeleteTo those saying Stage Coach and Go-Ahead get on in Oxford? They do now. At first it was a full on war, trying to put each other out of business. I was a student there when Stage Coach tried to muscle The Oxford Bus Company out of business. It wasn't pretty at all. First and Citybus have got on like a loving couple in comparison.
Hopefully sanity will prevail though and they will sort it out sensibly.
The Oxford bus war was in the mid 90s (1994-96) between Oxford Bus Company (Go Ahead) and Thames Transit (Harry Blundred's Transit Holdings). Personally Go Ahead were the instigator of that one. Stagecoach didn't buy Thames Transit until 1997.
DeleteInteresting times. I wonder if Stagecoach has a 'non-aggression pact' with Go-Ahead and we'll see a route carve-up? The omission of the Torpoint outstation may suggest Citybus being giving a free reign in Torpoint, Saltash and Callington, perhaps in return for Stagecoach having the run of Tavistock and Okehampton. Otherwise, it is going to be the mother of all bus-wars, with my money going on Stagecoach who have previous form in that respect!
ReplyDeleteA non aggression pact as you infer would be a serious breach of competition law, and is in fact a criminal offence. Penalties can range from a heavy fine to prison for the people involved.
DeleteAction has been taken against cartels in the past (where operators collude to set tender costs or other pricing). There are a number of high profile cases in this regard where companies have been fined heavy amounts for price fixing.
Regardless of what the Stagecoach/Go Ahead fan boys think please remember that there are people who work both sides of the 'bus war' and they do the same jobs at the end of the day. On the ground opposing people get on with each other, the real 'war' is fought behind the scenes in offices.
Some of the FDC head office people might now be facing redundancy, through no fault of their own by being victims of circumstance. I feel sorry for those people, who like me no doubt work hard and enjoy their work whilst the very important top people will be looked after.
With the state the industry is in, finding another job might be difficult indeed. Clearly Anon 08:39 hasn't had to go through this in their line of work?
I don't think they'll be any "pact" but we may see Stagecoach taking on Tavistock, Okehampton, Barnstaple services(as they have depots and many other services there) with Plymouth Citybus having the Liskeard, Saltash services.
Deletei work for first, and can confirm this is happening, have had a letter outlining TUPE etc
ReplyDeleteWith the services into Cornwall SC will expand further & launch more services down there
ReplyDeleteJust a quick question on all this, is there an official link regarding this happening as it isn't on the Stagecoach of First websites as of yet?
ReplyDeletemoral is the highest its been for a long time so lets be positive and hope stagecoach regain lost ground by first.Lets remember first have not been competition for anyone including trevor . I dont think stagecoach will just lay down while city bus takes over everything. It may be later, that city bus will wish first were still running but they got there wish first out of plymouth......onward and upward...
ReplyDeletestage coach hates go a head and stage coach will have better buses and younger fleet ,that what Plymouth need
ReplyDeleteand torpoint depot is be run from cornwall long way take bus for mot unless stage coach gone to mot torpoint buses
Torpoint isn't being run from Cornwall.
ReplyDeleteThe whole South Devon network is covered by the deal. It's just that the depot site isnt included. What work Stagecoach ten decide to run from Plymouth is a different question, probably the most significant and known only to their senior team.
What we do know is that yesterday afternoon First de registered their entire South Devon network and Stagecoach registered a number of routes.
ReplyDeleteWhich ones will stagecoach register?
DeleteAnd don't forget that everybody in this business knows everybody else. Alex Carter (First) used to work for Go Ahead (Wilts & Dorset), while Richard Stevens (Go Ahead) used to work for Stagecoach.
ReplyDeletewhatever happens Stagecoach are a business and will want to earn a return for there investment. They have not bought it just as a maintenance depot plus since cutting loss making routes first have been making a small profit. Be fair competition is good it keeps the fares down. who gets what will be decided by the desk jockeys.I dont think when Go ahead bought city bus the had the idea of sitting back, nope they wanted a return for there money. are Stagecoach any different "doubt it"
DeleteNo they're not making a profit, small or anything else. stagecoach have their own plans for the assets and staff they've taken I've. Just be patient and see what happens.
DeleteTorpoint depot is to be sold, so it is not needed, and staff will transfer to Plymouth
ReplyDeleteIf Citybus intend to remain in Torpoint, I would have thought that it would make a useful out-station for them. It would certainly save a bit of dead mileage.
DeleteAs a wheelchair user, I have always found First staff helpful and considerate - as are most Citybus drivers, but not all I have come across.
My little hobby-horse - Stagecoach in Devon are gradually bringing back the old Devon General service numbers, so it would be good if they stuck with the more historical Western National ones which they will be inheriting. I still find it odd - and disappointing - that Citybus have retained the 72 to Looe but not gone for 76 and 77 for Calington and Liskeard.
So nearly two years ago Alex Carter arrived with the decision to close Plymouth having already been made by First. GoAhead were sitting pretty but just couldn't help themselves and steamed into stir point and Tavistock prompting First to make a point that they wouldn't be a push over for anyone. Now with a mixture of good judgment good luck and sheer determination the business is alive and the 250 staff instead of losing their jobs, look to be mostly moving to Stagecoach.
ReplyDeleteThere are some interesting lessons that some could learn from this...
certainly are!!! Whomever is responsible for the shockingly bad decisions made at Go Ahead, Plymouth , must be kicking theirselves. Had they just sat tight First would probably have died out and would be leaving Citybus with the monopoly from September (if not before) instead because of pure greed on their part they now face competition from Stagecoach who will give them a right kicking I expect. Stagecoach will look to expand in the city and possibly into Cornwall too I am sure (if I were them I would do it straight from the start... YOUR NEW BUS NETWORK FOR PLYMOUTH; They will have time on their side to make a loss etc as it will be expected. In a few years it could be Citybus on the way out! A spectacular own goal from PCB I Think!
DeleteCan anyone confirm if First own the freehold to Chelson Meadow or is it leased? When was it built/opened?
ReplyDeleteHow extensive are the engineering facilities? Do they have a Body/Paintshop?
They own the land
DeleteSeptember 1999 it opened. Comprehensive engineering facilities including bodyshop and paintshop.
DeleteThey own it freehold. I has everything you mention and is able of running at least double the current allocation.
ReplyDelete