The changes made by Plymouth Citybus last weekend saw several route numbers change. One route which 'disappeared' was the 43, which is now a 50 all the way through to Ernesettle which is a big change indeed as Ernesettle has always been the 43!
Several people were out and about in Ernesettle to record the last day...
Good pictures, thank you. One thing they do show, to me at least, is that the Ray Stenning livery looks smart on the Wright-bodied buses - possibly because the chrome on the front relieves the dark red (Devon General red?) nicely. It also seems a lighter shade than the maroon which some buses carried - the Stenning livery looked really depressing on a double-decker.
It is a pity to see the old service numbers go - particularly if they have been in use on the same route for very many years. Is it somebody local who makes these decisions or is it someone who has come from elsewhere in Go Ahead? 50 is a comparatively recent number - so why not 43 for the whole service? We would then have 42 Blue Flash and 43 Yellow Flash.
I worry particularly that, if First throw in the towel, the number 76 will go - that one has been in use for Callington to Saltash since 1931. I should have thought 75, 76 and 77 or 76/7/8 would have been more appropriate for the Saltash services instead of 10, 11 and 12. Those are city numbers, not Cornish ones. History over the last ten or fifteen years does not show 10, 11 and 12 to have been particularly lucky numbers in Plymouth - whether First or Citybus, they have been applied to odd scraps of services which did not last - even recently 11 and 12 to Tavistock didn't last long.
Soon after the change-over, I saw a bus heading out of town through St. Budeaux labelled '12 Bude via Stratton' - I wonder if someone waiting for a 576 to Callington would have let that one go.
if we used 43 for whole service, then you would find people in estover would react the same as those in ernesettle. but even though we changed the number, passengers numbers are exceeding expectations, hence investment of 2 million in new buses due aug/sept of this year.
2 million pounds on new buses is great, and they will certainly stand out - and not be missed - in yellow. Can't wait to see them arrive (assume they will be fleet numbers 521 to 531 (11 buses?).
I bet 520 will still run on the 50 like it is now. i can say a lot of the older people in leigham don't seem to like the sound of having double deckers all the time
It is just that 43 has a much longer history than 50. If that service is to be Yellow Flash, then 42 and 43 would be 'flashy' services. Use of numbers in the 70s for services in Cornwall?
i thought the 43 would stay because it has been running longer than the 50. but i guess they just wanted to keep it as a new number like they did with the 12
Another reason the number has been changed from 43 to 50 could be if CityBus want to expand further north of the City then the number 43 could be used. At the moment 40/41/42/42A/42B/44/46/46A46B are serving Crownhill and onwards so it would make sense for that number to be made spare so that it could be used at a later date.
I can see why the route numbers have changed but it is still causing confusion for a lot of passengers. I catch the 50, which has not changed numbers, but from Derriford now displays Ernesettle - so passenger expect it to turn left out of the Hospital and head that way rather than head off in the opposite direction! "Is this the bus for Leigham? or Asdas?" I am sure people will get used to it but that may take a while.
People will get used to changes, eventually. Our local company has changed some long standing numbers to match the new commercial manager's view on such things. I'm sure the regulars soon got to know, and I can see the logic the company have used, it does make sense to a new user to group things as they have. Some of us however have long memories and only occasionally use these routes so it takes a moment to convert the new number back to the old and realise that is actually the bus I want! As for confusion at Derriford, do PCB use via points on their screens? The examples above are all just the destination, big and bold and looking good, but is there a trade off between ease of reading and the quantity of information displayed? It is a whole new debate whether people actually read destinations though. Remembering my student days on Tyneside, my local stop had a selection of GoAhead Northern routes into Gateshead. At a distance, before the blinds could actually be read, 2 numbers and a black blank meant a 58 or a 60, direct to Gateshead, 3 numbers up meant a 648 or 649 which went a longer way round, or worse of the lot a 527 which took all day to get across the Tyne and ended up no where much use! Fortunately the depot which ran the 527 used Coastline branding right across the front upper deck windows, making that an instant identifying feature. OK, I'm a bit off the point, but the public do use these types of "short-cuts" to find their bus (intending passengers would groan as the "wrong" bus appeared around the distant corner) - an understanding these tricks can be used to the advantage of the an operator.
anon @ 10.57 myself and my colleague are responsible for designing the blinds for citybus. i can tell youthat yes most of our routes do have via blinds. 50 ernesettle with a via flip showing via marsh mills/city centre/st budeaux 50 derriford hospital via estover.
Knowing that 43 could be used for oppisite 44 route like the olden times - another reason :) so it would be like the old 44A. be happy i catch the 50 - i don't get confused. oh and btw heres a list of fleet no's i see of the 50 now and again: 108,106,109,105,34 and 140 and a rare ... 507
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Good pictures, thank you. One thing they do show, to me at least, is that the Ray Stenning livery looks smart on the Wright-bodied buses - possibly because the chrome on the front relieves the dark red (Devon General red?) nicely. It also seems a lighter shade than the maroon which some buses carried - the Stenning livery looked really depressing on a double-decker.
ReplyDeletei will miss the 43 but i can say well done to the people at milehouse with the new 50 displays and lovely photo Richard
ReplyDeletedart number 43 was on the 50 today so 43 not finished yet
ReplyDeleteits always nice the to see a dart on the 50 again. the 50 ended not having any and got the lovely B7RLEs and the citaros.
DeleteIt is a pity to see the old service numbers go - particularly if they have been in use on the same route for very many years. Is it somebody local who makes these decisions or is it someone who has come from elsewhere in Go Ahead? 50 is a comparatively recent number - so why not 43 for the whole service? We would then have 42 Blue Flash and 43 Yellow Flash.
ReplyDeleteI worry particularly that, if First throw in the towel, the number 76 will go - that one has been in use for Callington to Saltash since 1931. I should have thought 75, 76 and 77 or 76/7/8 would have been more appropriate for the Saltash services instead of 10, 11 and 12. Those are city numbers, not Cornish ones. History over the last ten or fifteen years does not show 10, 11 and 12 to have been particularly lucky numbers in Plymouth - whether First or Citybus, they have been applied to odd scraps of services which did not last - even recently 11 and 12 to Tavistock didn't last long.
Soon after the change-over, I saw a bus heading out of town through St. Budeaux labelled '12 Bude via Stratton' - I wonder if someone waiting for a 576 to Callington would have let that one go.
if we used 43 for whole service, then you would find people in estover would react the same as those in ernesettle. but even though we changed the number, passengers numbers are exceeding expectations, hence investment of 2 million in new buses due aug/sept of this year.
Delete2 million pounds on new buses is great, and they will certainly stand out - and not be missed - in yellow. Can't wait to see them arrive (assume they will be fleet numbers 521 to 531 (11 buses?).
ReplyDeleteI bet 520 will still run on the 50 like it is now. i can say a lot of the older people in leigham don't seem to like the sound of having double deckers all the time
DeleteIt is just that 43 has a much longer history than 50. If that service is to be Yellow Flash, then 42 and 43 would be 'flashy' services. Use of numbers in the 70s for services in Cornwall?
ReplyDeletei thought the 43 would stay because it has been running longer than the 50. but i guess they just wanted to keep it as a new number like they did with the 12
Deletethe new route number is 50. end of. if it bothers you that much don't catch it!
DeleteAnother reason the number has been changed from 43 to 50 could be if CityBus want to expand further north of the City then the number 43 could be used. At the moment 40/41/42/42A/42B/44/46/46A46B are serving Crownhill and onwards so it would make sense for that number to be made spare so that it could be used at a later date.
DeleteOK, OK - point made, if rather bluntly. I'll catch the 76 instead!
ReplyDeleteI can see why the route numbers have changed but it is still causing confusion for a lot of passengers. I catch the 50, which has not changed numbers, but from Derriford now displays Ernesettle - so passenger expect it to turn left out of the Hospital and head that way rather than head off in the opposite direction! "Is this the bus for Leigham? or Asdas?" I am sure people will get used to it but that may take a while.
DeletePeople will get used to changes, eventually. Our local company has changed some long standing numbers to match the new commercial manager's view on such things. I'm sure the regulars soon got to know, and I can see the logic the company have used, it does make sense to a new user to group things as they have. Some of us however have long memories and only occasionally use these routes so it takes a moment to convert the new number back to the old and realise that is actually the bus I want! As for confusion at Derriford, do PCB use via points on their screens? The examples above are all just the destination, big and bold and looking good, but is there a trade off between ease of reading and the quantity of information displayed?
ReplyDeleteIt is a whole new debate whether people actually read destinations though. Remembering my student days on Tyneside, my local stop had a selection of GoAhead Northern routes into Gateshead. At a distance, before the blinds could actually be read, 2 numbers and a black blank meant a 58 or a 60, direct to Gateshead, 3 numbers up meant a 648 or 649 which went a longer way round, or worse of the lot a 527 which took all day to get across the Tyne and ended up no where much use! Fortunately the depot which ran the 527 used Coastline branding right across the front upper deck windows, making that an instant identifying feature. OK, I'm a bit off the point, but the public do use these types of "short-cuts" to find their bus (intending passengers would groan as the "wrong" bus appeared around the distant corner) - an understanding these tricks can be used to the advantage of the an operator.
anon @ 10.57 myself and my colleague are responsible for designing the blinds for citybus. i can tell youthat yes most of our routes do have via blinds.
Delete50 ernesettle with a via flip showing via marsh mills/city centre/st budeaux
50 derriford hospital via estover.
Knowing that 43 could be used for oppisite 44 route like the olden times - another reason :) so it would be like the old 44A. be happy i catch the 50 - i don't get confused. oh and btw heres a list of fleet no's i see of the 50 now and again: 108,106,109,105,34 and 140 and a rare ... 507
ReplyDelete