MEDIA RELEASE – 1st August 2013 Plymouth Citybus company expands into Torpoint
Exciting new bus service to launch between Plymouth City Centre and Torpoint
Up to every 30 minutes Monday to Saturday
Linking Torpoint to Plymouth via Stoke and Plymouth Railway Station
Plymouth Citybus announced today that it will launch a new service between Plymouth and Torpoint from October 7. Plymouth Citybus, a Go-Ahead Group company, has further invested in its operation to now serve further afield into South East Cornwall. The service will run up to every 30 minutes Monday to Saturday between Torpoint and Plymouth City Centre, via Stoke and Plymouth Railway Station. Bus travel will be made easy with the availability of both smart card and mobile ticketing solutions, incorporating a wide range of tickets. This will be in addition to the driver available tickets. Season tickets will allow passengers to enjoy the wider Citybus network, including services to Derriford, Saltash, Ivybridge and Tavistock. Passengers will also benefit from the centrally located Travel Centre opened earlier this year. Citybus has just seen its customer satisfaction rating from independent group Passenger Focus rise six percent since last summer, alongside being awarded Investor in People status earlier in the year. Plymouth Citybus’ Managing Director Richard Stevens said: “We have had requests from the residents of Torpoint for a Citybus provided service into Plymouth. One of the main points, which have come from our passenger consultations, is for them to be able to take advantage of the wider Citybus network, in particular services to Derriford. We are pleased to be able to cater for these needs by launching this new exciting service”. Further details about the new service will be released towards the end of August, in preparation for the launch on October 7.
There should really be a cable car service to places like Torpoint. Much more sensible than the current subsidised ferry.
ReplyDeleteHave they sorted out access to the ferry then? It was an issue in the 1988 bus war when PCB wanted to register a service across the ferry. I presume they will be using the bus-less boats during the day? or will we be seeing 2 buses on a number of boats during the day? I am sure that will please car drivers!
ReplyDeletePriority access slots to the ferry is an interesting question. First have always enjoyed that priveledge. If though you have 2 operators wanting to use the ferry and have priority to use it but the ferry committee were concerned over capacity - how would it be resolved?
Come on Alex Carter do something. Lets start a First fightback with some new City services. Honicknowle, Eggbuckland and Derriford/Tamerton would be a good start. For your staffs sake and bus travelers in plymouth we need First in the city. Don't let Citybus get a monopoly here... if they do watch all these services get cut back and fares go up!
ReplyDeleteFirst tried that a couple of years ago. Why would it be any different if they had another go?
DeleteTotally agree we need First, I think Citybus are taking the mick now! Come on First fight for everyones sake. Signed a Citybus Driver.
DeleteThere was two company in brighton and go ahead brought both together and look how good there service is now .
ReplyDeleteFirst are pulling out they aint interested in the bus industry just take a look at all the depots they have closed and year after year dont make any profit
ReplyDeletefirst have tried it in the city and it didnt work. they had southway, ernesettle plympton and mainstone. plus citybus give better customer service and show up.
ReplyDeleteFirst need to try something in Plymouth if they want to stick around. I would try and shore up their current offering with some additions at first and then look to increase the network overtime. My proposal is:
ReplyDelete1/1a re-number as 1/2 with a combined frequency of 7/8 mins.
2 re-number as 7 and increase to every 7/8 mins
3 extend half the services to Mount Gould every 15 minutes replacing the 5
4 extend the service from the city to Mutley Plain, Higher Compton, Austin Farm, Leigham, Estover and Mainstone
5 replaced by 3
6/7 re-number as 5/6 operating a similar route to PCB 5/5a except the First 5 will go quick via Pomphlett Road out of the city with the 6 like the 5a except returning via Pomphlett Road with a combined frequency of 7/8 mins. The 5 can be extended to serve Stoke and the Torpoint Ferry every 15 mins, the 6 extended to Mutley Plain, Crownhill, Derriford Hospital and Woolwell every 15 minutes.
48 to operate every 90 mins to Wembury from the city
76 to operate every 30 mins to Callington, hourly onto Launceston
X80 renumbered 87 to operate every 30 minutes through to Torquay
81/81a renumbered 80/81 to operate a quicker route to Torpoint via Millbridge every 10-20 mins. 80 terminating at Great Park every 30 mins and 81 running to Cremyll every 30 mins
83 increased to every 15 mins
84 to miss out Woolwell and run every 30 mins
93 as normal
Lower fares £3 a day, £12 a week for Plymouth, Torpoint, Saltash and Ivybridge, £39 for a month. Child fares at 50% the adult fare, group tickets at £6 a day for 5 people. Half fare for adults after 7pm and on a Sunday.
Well it might work
Certainly worth a try and increases Firsts presence in Plymouth with minimal investment. I would definately be looking to serve Woolwell seperately from Tavistock to speed up 83/84/86 service and the idea of linking Woolwell through to Plymstock seems good (worked years ago I recall. On top of the above proposals I would look to operate a new service to Plympton/Chaddlewood like the old 12, direct unlike Citybuses all around the houses/unreliable offerings!
DeleteMaybe after this is bedded in they can look to expand to other areas,a direct Tamerton Foliot/Derriford/Mutley/City service could work perhaps utilising resources from pulling out of the X80 route, maybe operate a service just as far as South Brent every 30 mins via Ivybridge, A38 through Plympton!
Lower fares is key and make sure lower fares are advertised on bus stops next to the Citybus ones, so people realise they are paying over the odds on PCB. I would consider rebrand as Western National as well! Little F sign above the door maybe to keep First name somewhere.
citybus are getting to big for there boots ,about time coucail step in ,first buses have been the only bus from when I kid ,what a joke realy first buses don't seem to want to care about Plymouth come on first group wake up .or we be left with rip of city bus ,
ReplyDeleteI agree they ought to sort out their existing services before moving on to new ones. Some of their services i.e Plymoton are pathetic!!!
DeleteCould it be that Stagecoach/Citybus know Alex Carters rep for turning things around and are trying to get in before he tries to 'work his magic; in Plymouth. Get in first maybe???
ReplyDeleteI suspect PCB will use B7RLE's on this as they have a ferry lift fitted
ReplyDeleteIndeed they do. It is mainly used for entering and exiting Milehouse, though they needed it at Lower Compton/Efford the other Sunday when 107 was on 27/28s!
DeleteIt's this fake? I can't see it on their site?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.plymouthbus.co.uk/about-us/news/plymouth-citybus-to-expand-into-torpoint
Deletewise up. first wont be around at end of year. you cant get a day rider at Torpoint and go everywhere in Plymouth. how many people go to Deriford and got to go by car because of no bus service.
ReplyDeleteWell lets hope that's not rue or people in Torpoint ant Tavil could end up with a nice Citybus dayticket but no buses after 6pm...believe you me when/if First pull out, Citybus will not be intertested in running evening services on these routes Note no evening service to Ivybridge, evening buses withdrawn in Saltash
DeleteYes you can. The Link bus service's 15 / 84 / 86 would take you to Derriford..... save on car parking fee's
DeleteYeah suppose people like you would love that don't worry about staff jobs or their families!!! Good look to FDC...Hope you give Citybus a run for their money!
Deletebeing attacked from both sides now ,stagecoach ,and go ahead lol ,goodbye first
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should people of the staffs jobs and families before making childish remarks!!!
DeleteI suspect that First Management secretly want 'out' but this has to be managed in PR terms, i.e bite sized service withdrawals so as not to panic staff (thats staff at other First companies as much as local), also redundancy notice periods are much longer if over 100 staff.
ReplyDeleteThe alternative is a long bus war of 'attrition' with all companies losing money.
Go Ahead can bring in ex London vehicles (refurbished) at relatively low cost, First can do the same but are currently trying to catch up with their replacement programme with DDA deadlines looming.
Citybus are the 'main' operator with critical mass and are established in the main urban area, Alex Carter could start a bus war but it is hard to see how First could win.
It's probably illegal nowadays but the companies could reach a 'gentlemen's agreement' i.e this is our patch, that is yours but the Oft would take a dim view.
A gentleman's agreement or any other form of co-operation is totally illegal.
DeleteFirst can't bring in ex-London vehicles, as they've sold the bulk of their London business with the remaining dregs due to go in the next couple of months as tenders expire.
Didn't know Citybus ran services to Tavistock. Or is that the next announcement that they're going to make! Are First finished in Plymouth? I understand that their staff seem to think so with many drivers moving on and some joining Citybus. Will Stagecoach try to move into Plymouth in a big way? Who really knows at the moment but definitely interesting times ahead.
ReplyDeleteSorry, with regards Tavistock and Citybus I must read earlier posts first! Away for a few days and Citybus announcing new routes everywhere! Well done Richard Stevens. Rest of my post still applies though.
ReplyDeletePCB are trying to force Frist out of the local market so that they'll have free rein to rip-off the people of Plymouth. First are cheaper with regards to their bus fares. PCB , you are not welcome in Plymouth, its time for a public boycott of these money grabbing fascists!
ReplyDeleteYeah totally agree.... Come on First help us out here...the services you do run are far superior from the rubbish unreliable junk that PCB offer. Bring on a bus war I say, start on the estates in Plymouth somewhere remember where Citybus have gone First have advantage of being the incumbent and also more frequent and once offers out of the way largely better prices!
DeleteCome On Mr Carter show what you are made of!!!!!
All you people wanting (expecting?) First to start attacking Citybus with new routes and low fares.... what planet are you on?
ReplyDeleteI'll say it again. First tried it with Ugobus a couple of years ago. It didn't work and it's more or less all gone. Why would it be any different if they tried it again?
If First offered cheap fares, what would Citybus do? Er, reduce their fares too, of course. Good for passengers in the short-term perhaps but both operators would be losing money. It's not going to happen folks.
New people at the top, not just following company line!! May be though just wait this is going to cost Citybus an arm and leg, brand new buses etc to offer a less frequent alternative to that offered by First, with no evening services, mmm! Other than Ivybridge, Citybus newer routes have not been that successful, Saltash started well but change to services, withdrawal of anything after 7pm as per First back in control here. Keyham/Stoke, Citybus 33 not doing that well, First 4 winning here I would say! I would also say First probably still have greater % of passengers in Plymstock area. I would also say that UGO 5 in Mount Gould is picking up especially after advertising how much cheaper they are compared to Citybus here, nearly £1 cheaper for return to city. Citybus will not be able to compete with frequency/service on Tavistock route even with their fancy buses, watch their profits fall, shareholders won't be happy and morale drop as they cut drivers payrises etc to fund it! Whilst Citybus management are worrying over this and neglecting their city services further that is the time for First to counter on some of Citybuses neglected areas, Eggbucklad, Tamerton Foliot and poss Plympton to name a few!
DeleteFirst are a lot better are targeted fare structures than Citybus and will hold their nerve more ith lower fares... They are losing money in Plymouth anyway. Citybus will panic and put fares up across their network yet again to pay for loss making services in Tavistock, Torpoint, Saltash etc!
DeleteEggbuckland and Tamerton really are the two most neglected areas in Citybuses operation. Surely there's money to be made in an every 20 minute service on the 27, 28 and 42/A?
DeleteEvening services are absolute bare bones in Eggbuckland too, from Royal Parade:
27 1930
28 2015
27 2100
28 2145
27 2230
28 2315
The 28B was far better with departures each hour! Obviously to keep the number of buses and drivers to a minimum. If First do want to fight back with City routes which as much as I hate to say it, it seems unlikely, then I'd target these two areas as a priority.
I cannot believe the people supporting First on here. Running clapped out vehicles en mass and absolutely no fight left in them now when they do come up against opposition on 'their' patch. For example how do they compete against Citybus in Ivybridge? They put out totally worn out S reg Dennis Darts against fairly recent Enviro 200s. Unsuprisingly their share of the market totally collapsed. Most of the Ivybridge residents I've spoken to who use the bus into Plymouth love the new Citybus service. And what are First going to do against Citybus on the Tavistock route? Order some new high spec double deckers or just leave things as they are? I think we all know the answer to that, don't we? With Stagecoach soon about to compete again against First on their woeful X80 route I'm afraid it's game over for the lads and lasses from Aberdeen. I really hope that they start to put up a fight against the competition but on recent evidence can't believe that they will. Drivers are leaving on a daily basis and I'm afraid that it might be kinder to put the 'old dog' down now. First Group should be ashamed of the way they have run their bus services in Plymouth in the last 18 months or so. What a way to finish off a company with the proud tradition of Western National.
ReplyDeleteall very well go ahead having new buses but still grumpy speedy poor customer service drivers, belive me it makes a difference to have good driver rather than new bus, go ahead loose on that issue every time. also why do go ahead hide behind the old city bus logo? show your true colours go ahead , dont hide.
DeleteFirst have stated several times that they are looking to sell off their loss making operations! North Devon has gone, London operations have gone, Northampton has been run into the ground to the extent that First only have a couple of services left, the rest of their services have been taken on by Stagecoach.
ReplyDeleteObviously Go Ahead and Stagecoach have seen that perhaps Plymouth is an easy target to compete with First?
The operation run by First in Plymouth for the last few years can best be explained as amateur, the quality of the vehicles operated by First are poor with constant break downs, old and un-refurbished examples, poor time kept services, vehicles not turning up when scheduled etc etc.
First are only concerned with their shareholders and the need for profit to meet the greedy shareholders needs, First aren't overly concerned about their staff, as any big multi national company rarely is. The best that staff can hope for is TUPE and that Go Ahead or Stagecoach take over the services.
Go Ahead operate consistently high standard services throughout the country, look at Brighton and Hove as an example. A monopoly of bus services in Plymouth may not be a good thing, however the benefit of a monopoly service is that the general public will only need to buy one bus pass to use all services to all destinations, that would surely increase patronage!
Why is everyone assuming there is no evening service on Tavistock and Torpoint. Timetables aren't even published yet. Ivybridge may not have a late evening service but I suspect if they did it would be a loss maker. How many people actually travel after 8pm on a regular basis. Very few - hence the Council subsidy on several evening routes both PCB and FDC. Again lots of assumptions that if FDC were to pull out PCB would continue with just a half hour service - do you really think so. They may not up the frequency to an exact match but you could argue that outside of the peak periods both Tavistock and Torpoint are over-bused. You have to have great sympathy for the employees at FDC who as a rule have tried to maintain services with elderly vehicles and no investment in resources. It's ironic that their only good buses are running around half empty on the Plymouth P & R services where they could have been better employed to upgrade existing services. It can't be nice to see your Company crumble around you. But you cannot blame SCSW and PCB for testing the market. Both Companies appear to have spotted opportunities and are investing in their future. All Companies need to grow to survive.
ReplyDeleteThe wording of Citybus adverts state 30 minute Mon to Sat daytime service, if they were running evenings they would say so, I would say!!
DeleteIthink Citybus may have bitten of more they can chew with new bus orders etc for these 2 new routes. a 30 minute freq service to Tavistock is nowhere near as good as Firsts 15 minute offering no matter how lovely Citybuses flashy buses are. No evening service from PCB, hourly until Midnight from First Likewise 30 min Torpoint day time only against First 20 min freq and hourly eve/sundays seems a no brainer to me!! This huge investment could seriously backfire on Go Ahead, especially as First will no doubt lower fares so assuming Citybus have to follow this will take even longer to get their investment back... and I for 1 would find it funny if they got their hands burnt by assuming First will walk away. If First fight back with some new city routes under their new leader I feel First will gain more new passengers off Citybus in the city than Citybus will off First on the rural routes. In the instance of Tavistock the mileage will be astronomical for the customers gained I feel without even taking into account the cost of new buses, fuel, drivers wages etc!! A local operator, Jacketts Coaches, tried taking on First on this route only last year ok it was on a smaller scale but they were gone within 3 months without First doing anything!!! Both Jacketts and Citybus stated the people of Tavistock asked for a rival service,,, Citybus will be gone from this route within 12 months if First stay in Devon! and I reckon that goes for Torpoint too! First have got a good deal with the ferry too!
Sensible comments, Anon 20:05. It's a shame that there is so much guessing about what exactly PCB will do with these new routes, rather than waiting to see what the timetables say.
DeleteI don't think anyone really wants to see First leave Plymouth but they've failed to sell the operation and have more or less said they're looking at withdrawing.
The Ivybridge competition started a year ago. It was a no brainer that some further competition would break out, the X80 being the obvious route to target, either by Citybus extending their 45 or by Stagecoach coming in. Yet in those twelve months First has done nothing whatsoever to try to protect the X80, there's been no promotion/marketing/decent branding, no new vehicles or even refurbished vehicles. There has been no improvement in the consistency of its offering. (Okay, I'm ignoring the three 08 reg Enviros as they only seem to be here because DCC found out they been packed off to Weston). First has had twelve months to protect that route, (with PCB and SD no doubt watching closely), and haven't done a thing.
Sadly, to my mind, that seems to speak volumes. And I say all this as someone who really wants First to stick around and do the job properly.
Saw one of the P&R Enviros being towed down the Embankment this afternoon with a smashed windscreen and very substantial frontal damage. Looks like it'll be out of action for quite a while. Couldn't have come at a worse time for poor old FDC..
ReplyDeleteIf I can just remind people what Tim O'Toole said at the presentation of the FG 2012/13 full year results:
ReplyDelete"In South Devon and Northampton we are almost in a close-down mode trying to figure out Northampton getting to a more efficient, smaller operation, transferring some of those operations to other carriers so we can TUPE the employees across and give them the appropriate future."
Since then Northampton has gone. None of the routes were transferred. It just closed down. So now we're just left with South Devon "almost in a close-down mode".
Totally correct.
DeleteFirst has lost interest in mediocre bus operations in back-corners of the UK and their complacency is proved by a lack of investment in new vehicles, dreadful staff morale and a gradual depreciation in the quality of services provided. FDC have missed lots of easy opportunities to expand and improve services. Previously their strangle-hold over routes like Tavistock, Torpoint and the X80 meant they could be complacent and do the bare minimum. Now that other players are on these routes, suddenly First has no tactics left to compete. Game over.
First has also been quoted recently as saying that UK rail operations is where it sees its future.
Which is odd because they could find themselves without any rail franchises at all, like Virgin. At least buses give you some form of permanence.
ReplyDeleteCityBus cannot offer any more than 2bph on these routes just yet, as then it would cart around more fresh air.
ReplyDeleteThe idea behind them is to make it easier for passengers to transfer to other CityBus services in the city, without having to buy another ticket
I would much rather travel on a PCB than a FDC bus as their vehicles are much nicer. FDC went rapidly downhill after it changed hands from Western National. I really do think PCB will win over an audience in Torpoint and Tavistock as the market is as good as theirs to take. I reckon by the end of the year, FDC will be out of South Devon altogether.
ReplyDeleteat the end of the day, this is not a bus war. ( no-one wins in the end) we are expanding our network and offering present and new passengers new travelling options.
ReplyDeleteif new routes take off, then i'm sure we (pcb) will adapt to market demands.
Sorry Mike, you keep telling yourself that, The idea of a 'war' is one side general wins and one loses.
DeleteCitybus have not been interested in Tavistock or Torpoint before (except a few months in 1988) so why now?? This is a blatant attempt by Citybus to force First out by cutting their profits on their good routes!
It is all a bit strange that both Stagecoach and the much smaller GO Ahead register routes at the same time? Or do they know something we don't ?? Maybe a possible buyer lined up at First.. a get in first approach?
everyone is entitled to their own opinion. wheter me or anyone else is right, is in the lap of the gods.
ReplyDeletethe difference now is 25 years! The market changes and back in 1988 Tavistock wasn't viable. Times change, companies change, areas grow. Simples! This is not a war with First or any other bus operator, but simply looking after what the customer actually wants. Just look at the growth of Ivybridge in 25 years and how PCB actually took the trouble to ask the public what they wanted out there. The public asked for a direct hassle free service and PCB responded, looking after themselves and customers alike. Tavistock and Torpoint are no different and PCB is responding for that reason.
ReplyDeleteYeah come on First, we go Eggbuckland and Tamerton, how about UGO there too!! Lol. Citybus obviously can't be bothered they are too busy concentrating on pointless journeys to Tavistock etc!!!
ReplyDeleteHow about a return of Firsts' 17 To Southway perhaps Southway residents will use it more this time now they see the utter contempt Citybus have for them by ignoring everything that was said on the chatterbus and not going into town around the loop etc ??? Surely the ludites out there who are afraid of change must be seeing the consequences starting to leak through now. If only more people had used First's services to Honicknowle, Plympton and Southway a while ago none of this would be happening!!!