57.14% of you expected First to blink first. It seems you were right…
Yesterday there was a little notice on VOSA
PH0004983/451 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth City Centre, Bretonside Bus Station and Ivybridge given service number 88 effective from 02-Jun-2013.
It remains to be seen what happens to the infrequent 180 service but at this stage it does look like Plymouth Citybus have won this little skirmish. The 88 did go serve parts of Ivybridge that were not touched by Citybus so it will be interesting to see if Citybus rejig their 45 to help these communities?
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As was mentioned back in October, the 88 serves more of Ivybridge so does ultimately seem like a more useful service, however the 45 has faster journey times.
ReplyDeleteAn idea could be to split the 45s into hourly departures like they do with the 42 and 42A; with the 42 being the quick route into town from Tamerton and the 42A going around Southway first, but both follow the same route from Derriford into town. They could pretty much copy this with a 45 and 45A.
Leave the 45 as it is but with one departure an hour, this will be the quick route into Plymouth, and have an hourly 45A which serves other parts of Ivybridge that will be abandoned after First withdraw their 88. Departures from Royal Parade will be combined every 30 minutes on the 45/45A.
This idea has already proved popular and successful in Tamerton, as residents now have a direct link into town on the 42 without having to go around Southway first, and the 42A means Southway still have a link to Derriford Hospital. Just an idea.
Another few questions I'd like to pose is will the 08 Enviros remain on the 45 now Citybus have 'won the battle'? Or will they be moved onto things like the new 43A/33 routes. Also, will Ivybridge still be included in the outer zone or will it revert to what I think was called 'PlymZone'? I do worry that now Citybus have won the battle some of the above will come true. Please Citybus prove me wrong!
ReplyDeleteThat will be the nect battle i bet. 43a and the first 1 and 1a. see who wins the war of the saltash route. must admit citybus have better buses.
ReplyDeleteDo we know what the exact route that the revised 43A is going to be?
DeleteOh, the 5 is going aswell.
ReplyDeleteWhich "5" are you talking about
DeleteI take it you mean First number 5, St Judes. Says who ??? It makes a loss to be fair!
DeleteSays who??? I assume you mean the First 5 to Mount Gould. No mention ON VOSA etc..in fact current timetable in place until 2014!!!
DeleteCant see Citybus going Tavi, they couldnt match the excellent 15 min frequency provided by First. Likewise a lot of people in Saltash seem to like First better and both Saltash and Tavi will remember First and b4 Western National have always served them not like Citybus who try it out then go back to their traditional Plymouth routes!
First need to look for new routes in the city to utilise the resources gained from withdrawing the 88!
the people they will win in saltash ie from st stephens will be at the loss of the people of latchbrook (and pilmere) latchbrook residents won't want too ride around st stephens too get into plymouth, which is why first split the routes, the people of pilmere won't want to swap buses to get too the citycentre so may revert back to catching the 76 (which a lot already do), citybus may have cheaper fares but first have a cheaper day rider, and i know of a few people who wont catch citybus because its seen as a sly takeover by plymouth, saltash has always been very cornish and does not like to be classed as a suburb of plymouth! be interesting to see what happens
ReplyDeleteResidents of Pilmere obviously didn't support the service. They have an option of changing bus with no fare penalty. Not the best solution maybe but better than just being dropped completely. The new 43A route around Saltash does not take much longer than the current time for Latchbrook residents although yes it does take longer. You have to weigh the slight increase in journey time against the improved frequency. Unfortunately loyalty doesn't count for much these days particularly with FDC, people will vote with their wallet. FDC have upset so many passengers with old buses, unreliability and (unless it is a competing route) high fares. A dayrider with FDC may be coppers cheaper but what value is it? There is hardly a major network in Plymouth to use it on. PCB have increased the frequency of the 152 (now service 30) offering more direct Saltash to Derriford journeys. In my humble opinion this is Ivybridge round two and I am pretty certain who will blink first. (Graham survey time?) Oh and of course the revised 33/33A service along the St Levans valley could well be Ivybridge round three.
ReplyDeleteSo are you saying you can get on a 30 at Pillmere, ask for a return into the City Centre, get off at Fore Street and change to a 43A with the same ticket? Apologies if I've misinterpreted it, could you possibly clarify it for me please? Cheers.
Deleteit doesnt really matter what size network they can use a day ticket on, as you said loyalty amounts for nothing, people in saltash travel mainly to the city centre, they are unlikly to go to whitleigh or tamerton for example, whereas people in plymouth may have family dotted around the city so a citybus dayrider will be better
DeleteWhilst I agree with what anon has said, I don't believe that Saltash residents see it as a take over by a Plymouth company. First is a Plymouth company but the major difference is = First have operated into Saltash for over 20 years, its no surprise it's still more popular!
DeleteI am a user of the 43A (several times a day),it is my firm belief that with a cheaper week ticket, more passengers would user the service. I was speaking to one First going friend who lives in St Stephens, he can't wait for the new service. At last, cheaper returns and a more reliable service he said, but oh, the week ticket is more expensive. I only want to travel to town.
As for reliability, you can set your clock by the 43A, at the moment, First turn up when they like and at every 15 minutes, that is an additional bus an hour in each area, excluding fore Street though which is two less. I just hope, that the loss of the lay over in Pilmere, it won't result in a poor service. Perhaps the 45 minute trip from Latchbrook, - Town includes lots of slack?
43A takes 45minutes, 1A takes 25minutes. I know several people who will not user the service in May because of the time difference!!
Myself an many others want a cheaper week ticket that will get me to Royal Parade and St.B, I'm not interested in traveling to Ivy bridge or Crownhill. Just as the services was getting popular, you decide to mess around with it. City bus = "if it ain't broke, fix it."
Fares where introduced for Ivy bridge, why not Saltash?
I assume Mr.George will read this.
It's sad to see First pulling off the 88. In my view the 88 provides more of a service to the whole of Ivybridge than PCB's 45. However when I saw both routes running shortly after Christmas i didn't think either service was doing particularly well. Maybe the 45 was just edging it. Will PCB continue to maintain the 45 at the 30 minute frequency is the question, hopefully they will.
ReplyDeleteIt appears that PCB's tactic is to remove First one step at a time. The scene now moves to Saltash and St Levans Road we will have to see how the 1,1A and 4 fare there. Surely it won't be long before PCB then take on First's 2 in Hooe and Pomphlett and the Tavistock routes. This would leave First crippled in the city.
There doesn't seem to be the heavy response from First that is needed. If PCB become the city's single operator there will likely be trouble in store for passengers. Some of these new services will probablyl be scaled back and what will happen to fares - well we can guess
The 45 does seem to be more of an express link into Plymouth for commuters, perhaps as I mentioned earlier they may consider separating the 45 into a 45 and 45A, with the 45A serving more of Ivybridge then continuing into Plymouth, like they do with the 42 and 42A in Tamerton.
DeleteI also strongly believe that Saltash and St Levan Road & Ford is Ivybridge round 2, though I doubt Citybus will mount an attack on Tavistock and Hooe/Mount Batten, especially the latter. My reasoning for my opinion is they've been running the 5 and 5A for about three and a half years, and have remained almost completely unchanged, which shows that they're perfectly happy with how those routes are doing, and aren't interested in mounting an attack.
Tavistock also seems unlikely; they run the 127 and 128 private contract school buses there and back every school day for years, so again, if they were interested in taking on First, they'd probably have done it by now. The next few months will be interesting, who knows what we'll see before September.
i would say tavistock was the most unlikley! first operate a 15 min service which would be hard to beat unless a equal frequency was offered and reduced fares, however its unlikly the council would allow another operater to use the bus station with such a high frequency its always full now.
Deletehooe/mountbatten is much more likley a relaunch of the old 7 route through mountbatten way to jennycliff would be enough to take a load of firsts passengers
Yes we will see what develops. I wondered whether PCB would be interested in running a route against the 2. Maybe City Centre - Prince Rock - Sugar Mill - Pomphlett - Plymstock - Mount Batten Way - Hooe - Jennycliff - Turnchapel. I suppose the fear they would have is First's 2 is pretty solid at every 12 minutes and PCB would have to look to match that frequency to have any impact.
DeleteFor Tavistock i suspect the number of vehicles they would need puts them off. A 15 minute frequency would require a minimum of 8-9 vehicles. However you never know
If I were Citybus I'd give their latest network changes a few months before planning any more, then look at what's gone well and what hasn't and go from there. If the new 43A and 33 fail then perhaps take on First on something like the 2 or the 84/85/86.
DeleteApologies this has nothing to do with this post at all, though I probably won't be able to get online tomorrow, so a very Happy Birthday Graham for tomorrow!
Thanks Tom!
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